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You Frugal People Are Making it Worse! Print E-mail
(20 votes, average 3.55 out of 5)
Shopping - Everything Else
Written by Omie Ismail   
Sunday, 09 May 2010 03:37

"I have a comment. I think you fail to see the damage that you frugal people are doing to the country. There are real people that have it bad with you people sitting on your money. I've sold only 2 houses in the last 11 months and that's common. There are lots of people with money to spend but they are not spending and people are losing their jobs not just in real estate. I get saving money to a point but if you all you do is horde your dollars nobody will have a job! Just my two cents." - Nicole

Nicole, I thank you for the comment and I understand how tough it must be to have a decline in income. Housing has been at the center of the Great Recession and I am sure it must be tough. If our national savings rate was 20%, I'd probably agree that there are people who could step up and move the economy forward. But that's obviously not the case. The reality is that Americans for two decades have increasingly bought everything from houses to Harley's on credit and a massive amount at that. So much so that for a long time, our national savings rate was actually negative. In other words, people spent more than they made and given that there are some savers, some people were spending far more than they made. It felt great while it lasted as everyone from Real Estate brokers to car salespeople saw huge increases in income due to the level of credit fueled sales. But that prosperity was a mirage and eventually, the credit bubble burst. So for some time, we will be working ourselves out of the most massive credit bubble in the history of mankind. So if you are in an industry that is reliant on credit to make sales, such as housing and automobiles, life is going to be really tough.

But your argument that the frugal are somehow to blame is way off base. First off, people can do whatever they want with their money, including saving it. They can also decide that they don't really want material objects. Second, if anything, the frugal and those that have lived cheaply are the ones that are actually propping up the economy right now. I personally know many people that sat on the sidelines when the housing market was going nuts that have recently purchased homes. In addition, many frugal people haven't changed their spending habits one bit during the recession, In fact, they may be spending a bit more because of all the deals that present themselves. So while the figures may not be anywhere near the level of credit-fueled purchases that the housing industry got used to, they are a long way from zero which is what they would be for those that extended themselves too far on credit. What nobody wants to say in America is that the vast majority of people are flat out broke. And broke people shouldn't be buying stuff.

Lastly, there is a sort of entitled tone of your argument that I think is pervasive in America. The fact is that if you are only selling two houses, it says that housing is not a good value, people can't afford it, or they fear they will lose money by purchasing. Assuming, as you say, that people have the money, but are choosing not to spend then I would guess that housing is not perceived as a good value. So prices need to fall to the point where it becomes a good value and then people will buy again. It's painful if that is your livelihood, but I am guessing that you had frothy times from 2004 to 2007.

Reader's: what's your take?

 

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Union_Worker  - You Don't Get It Do You? |2011-04-19 20:11:41
YOu act as though our current economic problem started in 2008 or within the past five or ten years. This has been going on since the 50s. It's not the tight wads that sit on their money's fault. It's everybody that didn't bother to read a lable. You showed American powerhouses with all the money that you'll gladly buy foreign junk, so they moved all the jobs over seas. When you call and get somebody from India, did you return your product, cancel your card, or contact whatever it was you were calling about demanding that if they didn't bring the jobs back, you'd not use their product, service, or whatever? No. You saw nothing wrong with all the stupid laws EPA, OSHA, Affirmative Action, and did nothing about it. YOu don't care what we have the largest military in the world. It is everybody's fault for not taking the responsitiblity for making their own government accountable for its actions. Moreover, you've let it become so powerful and out of control that it's now telling you what you can and cant do in your own homes. We've become a nanny state on top of it all. Frugal people... Please! It's due to Sheeple. Buy some more foreign junk and keep voting Democrat and Republican. How about we get a damned Libertarian government in place. This is supposed to be a free republic not a democrazy
lalawhipper  - Boo hoo is right |2010-05-20 16:13:17
When you take a job that works on commission, you take the risk that there will be times you do not make any money. A friend and I were once chased (literally) through a furniture store - the guy was yelling that he was 100% commission and didn't make anything if he didn't sell anything. Well dude, no one's forcing you to be here, are they?
mathguy5150  - Boo hoo |2010-05-16 13:03:48
The real estate crash is one of the best things that has ever happened to me and my family. We saved (hoarded?) every penny we could for five years, lived in a rough neighborhood, and were patient once we started looking for the perfect home. We found it, made an offer well below the asking price, and waited for the bank to decide it was ready to stop bleeding money. When they finally did, I became the proud owner of a beautiful new home. To say the price we paid for it was a steal is an understatement. I can also say I have yet to lose a moment of sleep feeling sorry for anyone involved in creating the situation that led to all of this. P.T. Barnum was right, and I'm more than happy to be living in one of those suckers' homes.
butterflyfreek |2010-05-12 11:57:31
Love this post!! Thank you for saying what most of us frugal people have been thinking for a very long time!! Why is it so hard for so many Americans to realize that credit does not equal cash on hand??
Omiewon  - One of my favorite sayings... |2010-05-12 13:23:12
"Just because the bank says you can afford it, doesn't make it so."
Yele  - New Subscriver |2010-05-11 05:08:17
Great post! Just wanted to let you know you have a new subscriber - me!
Omiewon  - Welcome Yele |2010-05-11 14:49:42
Good to have you!
Olivia  - some thoughts |2010-05-10 02:32:01
Though I don't know how Nicole handles things, there have been some great articles out there on "staging" homes to encourage sales. Maybe it's time for her to form new partnerships with landscapers, interior decorators and storage facility owners. Anything to get an edge. These suppliers might be hurting for business too and could use the opportunity to show their stuff. I'm sure the home owners aren't happy about not selling too. They might be willing to foot some of the bill.

Our town's real estate was hopping several years ago, but now houses are staying around for months. I don't know if Nicole is selling just the house, but also the neighborhood. So things like school districts, utility rates, property tax rates, public transportation, closeness to cities without actually being in them might be issues. Our neighborhood housing sales dropped a lot when the electric rates went up. And most of the houses in town were rigged with electric heating systems when built. So it's that kind of thing that becomes a deal breaker, not just people "saving their money".

Also a personal peeve. Why do developers make such huge, small-windowed houses, with awkward interior spaces? Why can't they build modest, affordable, pretty houses, with good interior traffic flow, and adequate natural light, just closer together? Find out what Americans actually earn and build places they could cover easily with 30% of their income or less. Building huge McUglies is crazy.
jackie |2010-05-09 23:45:47
I am fascinated that the originator blamed her lack of sales problem on those people that are "hording" their money... Oh to have more of us out there.. 'hording' our money and acting responsibly and only buying that which we can afford...
haverwench  - The most important point |2010-05-09 14:11:17
Your arguments make sense, but you left out what I would consider the most important point of all: most savers are not literally keeping their money under their mattresses. They are putting it in the bank or in some other form of investment, such as stocks or bonds. That means that the money is not simply "hoarded" (or "horded" as Nicole would have it); it is being invested in American businesses, which provide--guess what?--jobs. By saving and investing money, we are fueling the recovery, not holding it back.
cm  - I agree |2010-05-09 11:55:22
I agree with you. For Nicole to say that frugal people are "hording" their dollars is silly.

I consider myself frugal and yet we go out to eat, we buy products and food we enjoy, we take trips, we pay rent and for gas, etc. "Hording" would mean we would do almost none of that beyond basic life support. Frugal just means being somewhat careful with your dollars, getting the most value for it as you can. A national economy is not a charity that one has to "contribute" to by wasting one's (often hard-earned) dollars on junk just to help it out. That didn't happen in the 1940s--1980s and shouldn't happen ever.

Let the value of goods roughly dictate their prices, not social guilt! If I'm going to help others, I'd rather do it through either actual charity or through well-directed tax revenue, not by buying more plastic crap that mostly enriches CEOs and pollutes the planet.
Omiewon  - And shifts more of our jobs to China! |2010-05-09 12:38:47
It was really sad this weekend to go shopping for a Mother's Day present. i thought maybe I'd get my wife a nice purse at Macy's. There were some very nice purses at a 50% discount. But when I searched (it took a while) in every single case each purse was made in China. My son and I searched the store for a good 30 minutes and every purse but one was made in China. That one was made in India.

I'm not a big protectionist type but if you have a choice in what you are buying please consider where it was made. I'm not opposed to the Chinese having jobs and making their way, but I doubt the environmental, health, or pay standards in those factories is very good. Personally, I think the country of origin should be much more obvious when buying an item, but I am sure that any movement to do that would be lobbied against.
frugal nomad  - Amen |2010-05-09 14:04:40
Every American would take the time to drive around the rust belt and see the wreckage fom what I call the de-industrialization of America. It can be a very sobering experience. Entire cities have been wasted by the closure of plants. We used to have something like 40% of the population workin in manufacturing in th 1950s. Half a century later, we're down to 10%. We can't compete with China until the day comes when Americans can live at Chinese wages.

Protectionism is not a dirty word. Let's be honest - the American consumer is not patriotic when it comes to buying goods manufactured in the USA. Some of them will even buy flags made abroad just to wave them in a parade and scream "USA USA." Why don't they chant "USA USA" when they're buying a car or an electronic product. Oops - you can't buy American manufactured electronics. My mistake.
Fru-gal Lisa  - Re: And shifts more jobs to China |2010-05-09 15:26:00
Omiewan, I'm with you 100%! We need to get Americans back working. The only way to do that is to BUY AMERICAN. If you took a look at the US trade deficit -- especially the one with China, you'd be as sick as our economy! Most Chinese-made things I've bought haven't been worth a flip. The other day I purchased a brand-new self-propelled lawnmower with an electric charger. ITs battery was made in China. The mower lasted all of two weeks; I've taken it back already. I once purchased a real heavy duty yard sprinkler made in USA that cost a couple of dollars more than the Chinese-made sprinklers. The cashier confided to me people think they are getting a buy with the Chinese products but they have to come back and buy more when the Chinese ones break. She said my American sprinkler would easily outlast a dozen Chinese ones. Its the same for all products. Wake up, Americans, it's not economical to buy foreign. You will have to replace that Chinese junk. Besides... The job you save may be your own!
frugal nomad  - The big sucking sound |2010-05-09 17:27:56
This whole dichotomy between American workers and American consumers is scitzophrenic. We're both workers and consumers. some people seem to have forgotten that. They want high paying jobs when they go to work and they want cheap chinese products when they go to spend their money. Someday enough of us will wake up and see we can't have both. The fact is we're naturally blessed and don't need to import a goddamen thing. We can shut down our ports and still manage to have one hell of a lifestyle. Forty years ago, imports amounted to 6 per cent of the products on our shelves. If we were self-sufficient four decades ago, how come with all the technology we have, we can't be self sufficient today. The answer is American workers don't want to buy American goods which means they don't want to hire other Americans to make stuff for them. It's that simple. Let me repeat myself - protectionism is not a dirty word.
frugal nomad  - A time to save - A time to spend |2010-05-09 11:15:36
If there is one lesson we can all take from the Great Recession - it is that there is a time to save and a time to spend. If you don't save in the good times, you can't find anything to spend when the economy shrinks. Take the housing example - if you resisted the urge to buy during the peak and kept saving, you'd be making out like a bandit in this real estate market.

The other thing, I'd like to point out is that there are many articles we've published on housing and, on balance, we've recommended that people buy now, not just because of the prices but because of the low rates. If somebody should be screaming bloody murder at us it should be car salesmen.

Here's a sales tip to every real estate salesman.

1. Don't just sell the house - sell the mortgage. Educate your client on how even a slight increase in rates can instantly increase his mortgage payment. Waiting for housing to dip another 5% and paying an interest rate of 7% is penny wise and pound foolish.

2. Encourage your client to buy his "last house." If you sell in a few years - you'll have to give up the sweet rate you locked in. People need to buy affordable houses they can see themselves living in for a long time to come.

3. Work for your client on a deal you'd be happy to sign. When you sell real estate, you're messing with people's financial destinies. You're locking them in to the biggest investment they'll ever make. Give your client good advice - even if it means losing the ocassional sale.

jackie  - Blaming others for her problem |2010-05-09 23:44:55
I am fascinated that the originator blamed her lack of sales problem on those people that are "hording" their money... Oh to have more of us out there.. 'hording' our money and acting responsibly and only buying that which we can afford...
 
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